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Sabic Cycolac MG94

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Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

I'm busy working on this polymer at the moment. Will post as soon as I get some successful results.

If anybody has had success, please can you let me know your settings.

Cheers

Poida

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Topic starter Posted : 21/06/2021 1:20 am
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louis
(@louis)
Member Admin

Hello (again 😉 ) @poida ,

Thank you for creating this topic. 
Given the results you posted here https://support.3devo.com/community/filament-maker-issues/profiles-and-diameter-stability/  , I would say that you have successfully processed this material !

Are you satisfied with your printing results ? 

Please let me know what you think about the situation, or if you need any further assistance

Thank you again for all your efforts in making this material work

Best regards,
Louis

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Posted : 23/06/2021 2:07 pm
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

Hey @louis - Thanks for your invaluable assistance, you guys certainly know your stuff.

What worked for me <so far> with MG94 is:

210º, 215º, 220º, 230º, Auger at 5RPM, fan at 50%

No Masterbatch, plain resin.

I'll be making a roll (or plenty of them) this weekend and will post results. I will also do some testing with the different masterbatches I have, and share the love right here!

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Topic starter Posted : 24/06/2021 8:03 am
louis
(@louis)
Member Admin

Dear @poida ,

Thank you so much for sharing that with all of us !

I am glad to see how successful you are with this 'new' material. 
What makes it even more impressive, is that your ABS is a high-flow injection grade. Those tend to be extremely difficult in extrusion.

I would like to add to notes : 
- the fancooling percentage may need to be changed, depending on the room temperature
- sometimes, depending on the brand of masterbatch, melting issues may occur when you start adding some, because masterbatches can be a little more difficult to melt than virgin plastic. The settings may need to be changed, but that does not necessarily means infreasing the temperatures. Sometimes, lowering the temperature while raising the RPM can generate sufficient friction to melt the masterbatch pellets.

I hope these notes can help you and others. 

Please let me know if I can help you in any way, and thank you again 😉 

Best regards,
Louis

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Posted : 29/06/2021 9:50 am
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

Thanks for the info @louis, I figured that ambient temperature would be a complication factor, especially as I have the machine in my shed at the moment and it's winter here. Once it's back at school it will be in my clean room with a constant 22degC so I'll probably have to tweak things a bit more.

I wondered if there was a guide somewhere that listed what to look for when buying resin, as all I've done is look at the flow rate and compare it to Ingeo 3052D. Basically guess-work! There are so many factors, and it's a big learning curve to try to work out what is going to impact the finished product.

Cheers

Poida

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Topic starter Posted : 30/06/2021 5:57 am
louis
(@louis)
Member Admin

Hello @poida ,

I hope you had a nice weekend 😊 

You are right : material selection one of the most important decisions, but there is not a lot of guidance.

We have prepared some content about this very topic, but it is not out yet. Perhaps this can help you already : the most important factor seems to be viscosity. The easiest way to quantify that is the Melt Flow Index (or Rate) (MFI or MFR, in g/10min). 

The higher the MFI, the more fluid the flow. 

Extrusion grades tend to have low MFI (=be more viscous), typically below 10g/10min. As a conclusion, if you have the choice between several grades, I would always recommend an MFI between 5 and 10g/10min.

Thank you for your feedback ! It makes us even more confident about the fact that material selection content would be very welcome.

Please let me know if you have any further questions

 

Best regards,
Louis

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Posted : 05/07/2021 2:39 pm
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

G'day @louis

How do I edit my post with the settings? There have been developments! When posting that I made a rookie mistake - not spooling! When spooling the filament was being stretched and the roll was unusable. I have done further work and have found that this works *with reservations*

In each roll there is a glitch with a sudden thickening or thinning out, then back to stable. Not sure what causes it, but will keep looking

Settings:

H4 - 205

H3 - 210

H2 - 215

H1 - 200

Auger speed - 6.2

Fan - 100%

Using 750g of resin the roll takes about 2H45m to complete

Still testing...

Cheers

Poida

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Topic starter Posted : 06/07/2021 1:42 am
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

MG94 is a tough nut to crack! I have been fine-tuning the settings, with quite a few trips back to different starting points, but here we go again. I must stress, the issues I'm having are not related to the machine, but rather to the material (injection grade) and my learning curve. I love tinkering and while I have been getting good results and useable filament I've been trying to get even better quality output.

H4-190; H3-220; H2-235; H1-209   Fan=100%  Auger-5.7

Logic behind this is: Melting point of the polymer is 195 so I want H4 to bring it close to melting, but still have solid resin pellets to push into the molten resin to keep it moving. H3 starts the melt process. Highest temp listed is 245, so H2 is below that so as to not degrade the polymer. H1 is cool enough to allow the molten resin to flow out, but not too hot that the fans can't cool it to a stage where it curves around the guide bar, and doesn't have a corner over it.

The only issue I am having is that every now and then the resin seems to stop moving through and the puller (and winder) get really slow, the filament is being stretched out of the nozzle (from inside it, not from a nice cone on the nozzle) into a thread thickness. It would appear that the polymer is just turning with the screw and not being moved down the auger. The quick nasty fix is to put the auger up to 10 for a minute or two, and that gets it moving again. The problem is that I then have to spool the filament off the roll once completed and have 2 smaller rolls due to removing the unusable section.

Any thoughts? Upping the auger speed causes the filament to come out a bit too quickly and cooling is not as effective.

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Topic starter Posted : 30/08/2021 10:38 pm
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

This is what I mean about the filament being stretched out from inside the nozzle.

I have made a change to the above profile and it seems to be more consistent, and the stretching out issue didn't happen over the 2 rolls I just made. Time to a full reel is now just under 2 hrs. Auger speed up to 6.0 gave me the result. Still playing... Today is the first day of spring, so as the weather heats up I may have to move the machine back into the air conditioned clean room so I can keep temp to 22℃, even if it's 45℃ outside.

 

1630496745-IMG20210901123502.jpg
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Topic starter Posted : 01/09/2021 11:45 am
louis
(@louis)
Member Admin

Dear @poida

Thank you so much for keeping me up to date, including a nice picture 😉 

I am sincerely sorry I didn't reply your message from July 6. I must have made a mistake in managing my notifications. 

Injection grades can be extremely difficult to control sometimes. An output this thin could indicate that the barrel is partially clogged, that feeding is insufficient (maybe molten polymer is melting too early in the feed zone) or that there is almost no pressure inside the barrel. At the moment, I do not manage to define precise settings adjustments and their effects on the flow.

I will send you an email very soon with additional information and questions 

On another note, 45°C sure sounds tough ; I wish you good luck, and stay safe. 

Please let me know if there is anything esle I can help you with, and thank you for your good energy

Best regards,
Louis

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Posted : 02/09/2021 9:56 pm
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

G'day @louis

From the previous advice given I have been dropping the temp at H4 to keep the resin granular in that part of the barrel, so it's now at 185℃ with the auger at 6.0. This seems to work quite well. Here are some useable rolls that I have made over the week. The ones with just a little on are the ones where it went very thin and I spooled them off to other spools. I have found that 700g of resin will fill a reel nicely.

Cheers

Pete

 

1630623549-IMG20210902124031-1.jpg
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Topic starter Posted : 02/09/2021 10:59 pm
louis
(@louis)
Member Admin

Hello @poida

Thank you so much for that nice picture !

It really symbolizes your extrusion success, and I will happily show it to my colleagues 😊 

I initially wanted to discuss how I could help you, but it looks like my help is no longer necessary. 

Are there any obstacles you are still facing ? Anything I can help you with ?

Best regards,
Louis

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Posted : 03/09/2021 11:57 am
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

G'day @louis

Don't undervalue the help and advice you have already given me! If it wasn't for you I wouldn't be where I'm at now with filament output. It's still a learning process, and the further I go into it the more there is to know. I'm enjoying the journey. I'm sure I'll be asking you questions moving forward 😉

Cheers

Pete

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Topic starter Posted : 03/09/2021 11:35 pm
Poida
(@poida)
Eminent Member

Great news - with the following settings I am getting really stable filament output:

H4 - 180, H3 - 215, H2 - 235, H1 - 200, Auger - 7.5, Fan - 100%

Just to be daring I loaded it up with 50% reground filament from my failed attempts and 50% new resin and was really pleasantly surprised. The colour was a bit of a shock, but for anyone who remembers the old inkjet printers that only CYM the black they printed (being made up of CYM) always looked a bit green, so I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else!

1631078158-Regrind.jpg
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Topic starter Posted : 08/09/2021 5:15 am
louis
(@louis)
Member Admin

Dear @poida

Thank you for sharing these visuals. 

The result is amazing ! Is the color homogeneous throughout the whole spool ? 

If the looks of your products is of great concern, there might be options to push the project further. 

I am thinking about pigmented masterbatch. Typically, adding 2%wt of those to a batch of virgin ('colorless') plastic can give it a strong color. Not all grades of masterbatch are equally easy to work with, and it can be hard to get small samples supplied. 

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts, and perhaps seeing a print 😉 

Best regards,
Louis

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Posted : 09/09/2021 4:05 pm
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